nl forum 4

Start Studying!

Terms

undefined, object

copy deck

1.: I feel like I play pretty aggressive. I'm certain I'm more aggressive than a typical player (and I have stats to support it). I like to bet. If I have more than four outs I'll bet into any number of opponents on the flop. I take stabs at uncontested pots.
2.: But I don't raise much (postflop). Especially in position. Especially heads up in raised pots. When someone bets a reasonable amount, I just call. If they keep betting on future streets I give them credit for a hand and see how mine compares. If they stop betting, then (usually) I'll start betting for them. Sometimes people will trick me and checkraise. But that's not too much of a threat to me because sometimes I just take a free card with my draws (especially if I have a little something I can showdown unimproved) and sometimes I'll have the nuts. And with a marginal hand I can get away somewhat cheaply after such a display of strength. And against known tricky/aggressive players I can wait until the river to see if they've still checked again. (Players who raise preflop, bet the flop, check the turn, and then check the river again seem to fold far more than what I'd expect... I feel like my river bluffs are completely transparent here, but they have actually been pretty effective.)
3.: So in place of semi-bluff raises, I end up doing a lot of delayed semi-bluffs and other weird stuff like that. Against typical players I still end up picking up quite a few pots when my opponent gives up, but my aggression doesn't really kick in until they have shown weakness. Against LAgs however, I am always on the defensive since they are perfectly willing to fire more barrels at me and my hands are usually marginal. They keep all the pressure on me and I don't put much pressure on them. This is bad.
4.: I used to consider myself a thinking LAG, but after I moved back down limits and started over I thought I'd try a different approach. I got pretty tired of putting myself in difficult situations over and over again, although my initial theory was that it would make me a better poker player (and better read of hands), which I think I did. I'm not btw saying you play LAG.
5.: Any ways, I used to fire barrel after barrel and even into big fields OOP. I don't do that anymore (not saying you do). I've learned to be a lot more patient. I primarily changed my style so that I could play a lot more tables, because to play effective LAG you have to make good reads. If I played more than 3 tabels, my reads were real bad and very reliant on GT+.
6.: Now I play 5 or more tables, and I play great positional poker. I raise a lot with almost any two if there are several limpers in front. I'll raise from the SB and try and get it HU's and bet the flop. I won't bet marginal hands into big fields though, and I tend to call down more often when I have position with marginal-good hands, where in the past I would raise and try and push people off other marginal hands. It's just not a very effective strategy at 100nl/200nl.
7.: As far as LAG's go, if they are thinking LAG's the best thing to do is to come over the top of them pre-flop if possible. Otherwise calling down isn't a bad option against them. I don't think this is weak, it's just good poker. Plus they'll get the picture if you do it a few times. Coming over the top after the flop isn't such a good idea, unless you have a great hand of course. Unfortunately a lot of LAG's that aren't neccessarily good LAG's like to gamble, so you're going to have to conceed a lot of marginal sitations and let them pick up the small pots while you wait for the big pot. It's not being defensive or weak (which my ego used to tell me it was), it's just smart patient poker. Ideally you want to be the person putting the pressure on your opponents, but it's not bad poker to wait for good situations and win the big pots against them. At least that's my two cents. All in all, I actually call A LOT more then I used to. I used to hold to the motto, Fold or raise, only call with monsters. Not anymore however.
8.: I was thinking more along the lines of him checking the turn, and I bet. If he bets again I will usually call or fold, as I've found that my folding equity seems to be pretty low in the game I've been playing lately (400 short at Party). People that bet again there usually have enough of a hand that they want a showdown.
9.: Some other clarifications... in limped pots I am much more likely to raise the flop with an obvious draw. If I just call it will be easy to put me on a hand so I get no value when I hit. And in a family pot people will bet their top pair with an 'ok' kicker for protection and see a raise as a big show of strength, and not just a move. If I've called a preflop raise heads up my opponent is less likely to put me on a draw when I call the flop, so I still have a chance to get paid a bit if I hit. And people who raised preflop will frequently have hands like overpairs that they don't want to fold, and they don't think I will need a big hand to raise them on the flop. So I'm merely putting in additional money as an underdog.
10.: But the main "flaw" with my strategy is that it is tailored to exploit a specific error that many players make -- they play their cards preflop (raising), and they play their cards on the turn (either checking or betting), but on the flop they always bet regardless of their hand strength. A wise man once said that the way to win NL poker is to keep the pot small until you've figured out what everyone has. Since I gain no new information about their hand strength on the flop, I take the action which keeps the pot smallest until I can use the turn action to get a better read on them.
11.: Poker is a game of exploiting weaknesses, but in many cases we fall into the trap of thinking that we've found a great strategy simply because our strategy happens to exploit the weaknesses displayed by many players in a particular game. Upon moving to a different (bigger) game you may find that your opponents do not have this weakness, and your strategy no longer works. So part of me wants to work on improving beyond my current strategy, but another part of me just gets pissed off when I raise the flop with nut outs and some clown shoves it all-in with AA and I'm priced out. Back on the subject of "delayed aggression" again... When watching poker on TV I frequently see very well-known "aggressive" players playing in manners that seem pretty non-aggressive. For example, they will raise preflop and check the flop. Also, they will frequently just call bets instead of raising. Obviously tournament poker is different because going broke is much worse for you... but I've seen enough of it to believe that there is more to being aggressive than just having a "raise or fold" mentality. Mixing up your play and bluffing some certain percentage of the time is aggressive, regardless of the specifics of each street. Out-LAGing LAGs is chip spewing IMO
12.: This is not true. Check/raising a LAGs continuation bets has a very high rate of success for me, and is great metagame (gets me paid off against others when I c/r). By definition, a LAG will often not have much of a hand when he is being agressive. If your chips beat him into the pot, he's really unlikely to be calling much. In fact, LAGs are often the best players against which to use the bet/3-bet all in or bet and c/r turn all in if called. This is because their raising standards are so low that your fold equity against their range is higher, even if your fold equity against overpairs/TPTK is much lower than against a TAG. The thing about playing LAG against a LAG is that it can generate a ton of action at the table which is very good if you are the best player and is also very profitable if done right. The key is really just to beat him into the pot with a hand that has some solid equity, that's all.
13. Are you generally c/r-ing stuff like 66 on a 24J flop against an aggressive LAG?: No, that would suck in most cases. I'm not frequently playing 66 OOP HU against a LAG anyway, but if I was I would either fold or call down in this situation, highly player dependent. ***Do you ever c/r with complete air? (I know, I know, opponent dependent right?)***This will often be the only thing I will c/r a LAG with. There is a big difference between a LAG and a maniac. A LAG, let's say he raises he open raises 25%+ of his hands on the button/CO. Those 25%+ hands, if you have a rainbow flop without an A will have hit a pair around 1/3 of the time (factoring in the fact that he starts with a pair sometimes, but this is counteracted by the lack of an A on the flop, and his raising range is heavily skewed in the Ax direction).
14.: So if the flop is Q83r, villain has at best a gutshot if he has NP. If he is willing to call a checkraise with TJ, more power to him. OTOH, If I happen to have TJ/9T/9J on this flop, I'm definitely check raising all day. Keep in mind, even if he calls with every single pair he has and some A high hands, he is still folding roughly 50% of the time assuming he c-bets with high frequency (I will not pull this against a villain who doesn't, for obvious reasons... in that situation I lead out a ton of flops). So are you normally playing OOP against LAGs? I play 6 max exclusively, this often means a 4 handed table, so yes. There's not much you can do when a LAG has position on you 50% of the time as is often the case.
15. With the example hand above (Q82), are you raising the flop with position against a LAG who frequently c-bets? Or are you more inclined to maybe call/ raise or bet most any turns?: I prefer to call and bet the turn, this gives me a better feel for it and lets me "freeroll" so to speak if he does have a made hand (i.e. if I call with TJ on that board, he will bet again with AA and I will typically fold but if I spike my 9 I take his stack, and if he checks I will bet but might check behind if I do hit my 9).
16. one thing ive been doing more recently is open betting flops when i call a raise in a headsup pot OOP. if its a player who stays in line they fold a lot. this is something i do 1/6 or so times. -This is definitely a solid move on a drawless flop.: I think the best idea when playing against LAGs is to call down, or otherwise passive play. It exploits their strength (extreme aggression) and we gain value from their bluffs. Playing against maniacs is often profitable when your TPTK becomes the nuts. But Not all LAGs are maniacs. The differences are huge.
17.I used to limp a ton of hands in 6 max. I have since changed my preflop play and my winrate has improved dramatically.: I see no reason to ever play low suited connectors, suited one or double gappers, unless you are on the button or CO and come in for a raise. They have almost no value in my opinion. I also limped with QJo, QTo, A9-A5o. discontinuing this and simply folding has plugged a major leak in my game. That aside, I will still limp with 22-66 in UTG and UTG+1, some suited A's, and sometimes offsuit broadways like AJo, KQo, and ATo. I will usually raise with them, but if I have had a few continuation bets picked off, I feel more comfortable playing a small pot with them. As I have moved up, I am more likely to limp with some hands. I am more likely to raise with alot of hands if I am confident about my postflop skills in relation to my opponents' post flop skills.
18.6-handed, villain has not got out of line and seems pretty ABC solid. He limps to me in SB with KK, I make it $20. Flop is J99 with 2c . I bet $40, call. Turn is a brick, I bet $100 he min-raises me. We both start with $400.: The range is more likely JJ, a long shot AA, and a possible drawing hand. Look at the hand again. Put all the pieces together here. 1) Villian is solid and plays ABC poker. 2) Hero is betting the hand strong. 3) Flat call on flop, turn mini-raise. 4) Villian has invested over half his stack by the turn.
19. This hand is from a while ago, MP1 is 24/1.5 over 75 hands and Button is 36/5 after 36. Check raise on the flop, any good? What to do after the min-raise?Hero ($54.55) UTG+1 ($46) MP1 ($102.54) Preflop: Hero is BB with Jd, Kd. SB posts a blind of $0.: I'd push...expect to see the draw or TP or a worse two pair more often than you see a set of 2's. Pot the flop. The minraise is tough. Against some players this is a fold, against others it's a push. There are a lot of turn cards that can scare you(or villian) and kill your action and prevent you from executing a turn push. Push the flop for this reason. If you won't push this flop then why did you bother to call in the first place? Better move is to bet out pot to isolate TPTK. You do not want drawing hands sticking around on the cheap.***Bet the flop.***You're first to act in a large field with a pre-flop raiser. The texture of the flop is such that it undoubtably connected with someone. There is a flush draw and two high cards on the board and you'll be OOP for the rest of the hand, so you'd be fine with winning this now, rather than later.** Overall, seems like the perfect spot for a check-raise. Did I miss something?**Yes. You missed the fact that there are a lot of people, and none have shown any strength. I would not be surprised if you had the only K out there and nobody bets. Then the turn comes Qh and wtf then?** If there was a real raise PF, then I would definitely bet. But in these types of games, with a minraise, I bet you see a ton of crap like TJo and Q6s.
20. Villain in this hand is a LAG preflop: 33/17.36 PFR but 1.36 postflop aggression. He's been raising my big blind every single time it's folded around to him in the SB. He's also been open raising from the cutoff a lot, and I've been reraising anythin: call. once you called that preflop 3 bet, you pretty much can't fold here. Why didnt you fold/push instead of calling his reraise preflop? I really dislike getting all in preflop with QQ, I would much rather call and play poker on the flop. The problem is that it really allows him to play perfectly against me... he calls with AA/KK and folds everything else. That said, given that I have no idea what his preflop reraising standards are, maybe a fold here has something to say for it. the problem with the call the flop 3 bet line is that lets say flop comes Kxx or Axx, and he pushes JJ or TT?** I think if you know he'll push AK in to all under flop, calling the 3 bet is ok but otherwise I like pushing. **The numbers you posted do not add up correctly. Your reraise was too big.** Once there's $144 in the pot, you can't worry about letting your opponent correctly fold against you. Letting them see three cards could cost you your stack.***I don't think he is going to fold after making it $66 to go preflop, and I would bet that he wins the hand more often than you do. btw, I think you should give serious considerations to laying down to the preflop 3 bet if you haven't seen it before.
21. villain is 29/9/4 over 200 hands and seems one of the more solid players ive encountered at 100nl 6 max. i really hate calling down like this but dont see any other way to play it that i particularly like. Hero ($283.35) MP ($100.70) CO ($162.50) But: How to play this hand depends entirely on whether he's more likely to have AJ here than 67h.***I may raise the turn to $60 and fold unimproved to further action if I think I'm ahead. **you would fold getting 4/1?** i would like this line if his stack was deeper an i could fold to a turn push. as to his actual stack size i think the consesus saying raise the flop are probably right.***If you raise the flop he folds hands that are way behind and continues with hands that either beat you or have outs against you. The pot will be huge and you will have no idea what cards you want to see on the turn and river. If a heart comes will you push the turn? What about a queen? If you check the turn, do you call him on the river? You have no idea which cards make his hand. Or maybe he had you on the flop... you don't know. And it will likely cost you your stack to find the answer.
22.: If you raise the turn and he pushes then you can fold. He certainly has you beaten and your gutshot may not even be clean. So you give up a two outer if you're behind, but you force him off of a five-outer if you're ahead or you charge him more to draw at some sort of straight/flush combo draw. If you're usually ahead in this spot then it seems you get the best end of the deal. Although this is not factoring in the times that he may bet again on the river with the worst hand. But do you really want to call a big bet on the end? It's actually bad for you if he'll bet these hands again, because that would make his bluffing percentage fairly close to optimal according to game theory (the majority of hands firing the third barrel can beat an overpair). That is not a profitable situation for you. My line may work better if he were deeper, but after he bets the turn he still has $90 left... I'm assuming he is not going to shove that in the pot just for the hell of it? Getting 4:1 to call may sound good, but how often do you expect to win if he puses there? His stats look a lot like mine and if I pushed there I'd have the best hand more than 90% of the time and a straight flush draw the rest of the time. Now if your read on him says he is likely to push with a worse hand and you cannot fold to him, then sure, just call him down... but from your description of him I've assumed that if all his money goes in the pot on the turn, he can beat a pair.
Reads: UTG is 29/3 1.75 aggro 31/40 went/won showdown after about 28 hands. CO sat down recently. I put CO on a flush draw, though I guess some sort of gutshot or open ender is also possible, after his flop c/c. Not very sure what CO could be betting. I: My thoughts on turn are as follows. CO is a draw. Now UTG has me concerned. He could easily have two pair, or just as easily have tp on the flop. If I decided to go for a c/r I would have to commit like 20-25 on this turn with no idea where I was. If I led, CO would call, UTG would prob call (or raise, in which case I fold), but if UTG calls, I would still have no idea how to deal with the river, since a whole lot of scare cards can fall. Comments on flop play and turn play (along with your reasoning) would be greatly appreciated). I raise this to at least $3 preflop so I don't know here.*** as played, I bet the turn for $6, fold to any more action on the turn, check call or check fold the river if called. fold to a raise on the turn. ***I don't think you mind having your action killed on the river. ***its a sticky spot. nothing wrong with check fold the turn. I didnt bet the flop cuz i didnt want to bloat the pot oop with a vulnerable and marginal hand. I decided to c/c and lead turn, but I wasnt so sure once I saw the action. If i lead turn here, am I assume I am folding to a raise? If both villains smoothcall, there are a ton of cards that dont come on the river that either kill my action, or kill me.*** check/call in NL is usually not the best way to control the pot size. If you lead out and get 1 caller, the pot is smaller on the turn, and YOU decide how big the pot will be by your flop bet size.

Start Studying!

Deck Info

Number of cards 23